What You’ll Discover in Jim Camp How to Negotiate Like a Pro
Jim Camp – How to Negotiate Like a Pro
Mixergy was the subject of some amazing negotiating stories shared by entrepreneurs, angel investors and business leaders. a Few people email others. to For more details on negotiation techniques, ask. So, I invited Jim Camp, whose “Start with No” More than 500 multinationals have trusted these negotiating methods and have had them taught. to More than 100,000 students to Teach us.
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Andrew: This interview was sponsored by WuFoo. You can embeddable forms or surveys to your site for no cost. You can also get beautiful reports like this one so that you can analyse the results. It’s also sponsored by Shopify. If you go to Shopify.com, you’ll be able to Create and manage your own online shop. You can even create and manage your own apps store.-ins. This interview is sponsored and extended by Grasshopper. Let me now explain. to you.
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Andrew: It’s all right. Here’s the program.
Hey, everyone. I’m Andrew Warner, founder of Mixergy.com, Home of the Ambitious Upstart. We are now going. to Learn how to negotiate. How to negotiate properly. Also, to Learn how to That’s what I asked. Jim Camp. He is a Global expert on negotiation. And he’s trained and coached over 100,000 people. He’s worked with more than 500 multi-There are many national organizations like Intel, IBM, and Cisco Systems. His site is full of companies that he’s worked with. I’m going to limit it to These three are a great way to encourage you to Check out his website to The rest is up to you. He’s also been featured on CNN, CNBC, the Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, and many, many, many other shows and publications, including today, Mixergy.com. JimI am referring to to The website. What is the website?
Interviewee: Startwithno.com
Andrew: Startwithno.com. As the first question, let me ask you. This is the first question. a It is a selfish question but it is necessary to ask. If we learn what you’re about to teach us here today, and what you teach in your courses, and what’s available on your website, what’s in it for us?
Interviewee: Our last client that we followed, in which we actually tracked every negotiation we coached, was $400 to Coaching fees: $1
Download immediately Jim Camp – How to Negotiate Like a Pro
AndrewThey were able to to They were able to negotiate so strongly that they received $400 more per dollar than what they had invested in the program.
Interviewee: That’s right. They had a gain. They had negotiated a deal for 76 million dollars. a Gain from a little over 11 million dollars.
Andrew: Ok. Do you know what? That is something I truly respect. A lot of times when people teach, they don’t have a way, they don’t have a Feedback loop a way of measuring how successful what they’re teaching is out in the field. And I like that you’re measuring it in dollars and cents. So let me get an overview of what we’re going to Learn more. Ask you: How about this? You answer, ‘start with no”. Why start with “no”?
Interviewee: Well start, the word, one of the biggest challenges in the world today is what the word “no” really means.
Andrew: Hmm-hmm.
Interviewee: I didn’t find an audience, when I talked with an audience, say, and you’ll be shocked at the different thoughts people have about the word “no”. No one brings up that it’s just a decision to You can be changed. They also talk about rejection. They discuss the fear of hearing it. These negative connotations are discussed by them. “no”. “No” It is the most negative word. However, in reality, “no” It is all about a decision to Not be modified. And it’s the safest decision to made. It keeps the status quo. So, there’s a There are many dynamics in the world of words ‘no’, so that’s why we’ve encircled ‘no’. My most popular book. ‘Start With No’It is a very heavy job.
AndrewBut Jim, [??] we’ve got a It was a little bit echolious, but it went away. Jim, aren’t we supposed toIf somebody says ‘no’, aren’t we supposed to Let them go. Aren’t people who don’t stop at ‘no’Who is he? ‘no’ As a Decision that meets your needs to be changed, aren’t they considered obnoxious in the world? We don’t want to not be considered obnoxious. to Be liked by smart, intelligent, and successful businesspeople.
Interviewee: We want it! to Be likeable. We want to Smart people are what we want to You will be successful. You can be successful if you think for a Moment, I am reaching out to the entire audience to Today we can all say ‘no’ to Everything I say today. The important part might be just, just reject what I’m saying, and be comfortable with that. It won’t hurt me in any way. It won’t just happen.
Andrew: Did I just, you were…
IntervieweeSay it ‘no’…
Andrew: I see… Sorry, there’s a Very little of it a lag, I’ll let you speak, and I’m sorry, I shouldn’t keep interrupting because of this lag.
Interviewee: I want you to keep… OK, you see, so how did I appear, how do you appear to the audience when you’re comfortable hearing them? You are confident and effective.
Time Start:
Interviewee: All those things make it possible to apply to Allowing someone to to say no comfortably. It’s a Very powerful dynamic in negotiations Very Powerful
Andrew: To give someone permission to say no is a What is the power of this dynamic? How do you mean?
Interviewee: Well when’s the last time someone said to you: Look I’ve got a great idea for you and I’d like to It is possible to show it to you, and when I’m finished it’s ok to reject it you won’t hurt my feelings. Does that seem fair?
Andrew: Yeah?
Interviewee: Let the party have its barriers down a Spend little. a Spend a little more time examining the proposition.
Andrew: I see what you’re saying, yeah.
Interviewee: So that’s just negotiating an agenda is all we are doing. Of what’s going to happen.
Andrew: I see. Ok, so before we get started, before we start negotiating we say look it’s ok for you to You can say no. And by doing they we let the other person reduce his barriers and listen and take in what we’re saying without feeling like they have to Find a It is possible to get around it in an emergency.
Interviewee: That’s exactly what we’re doing. We’re allowing that person to be comfortable saying no and being engaged because we’re not pushing them to change, we’re asking them to Maintain the status quo and take only what is necessary a look so it’s a A whole new dynamic.
Andrew: Ok. Alright. One of the other things I’ve read about you is that you reject the idea of win-Negotiating is about winning. Why?
Interviewee: Well let’s talk first of all you never win a negotiation. You can never lose a negotiation. It is up to you to either keep your long-term goal or your mission and purpose alive. So there’s no such thing as winning and losing. What drives me the most is another thing. to attack win-win is that it’s steeped in compromise. Collective bargaining requires compromise. Negotiation does not. Yet you take a Look at the win-Win philosophies and all the books available, the hundreds of books that we use to help our mind-Sets because they believe that they have to Give up on something to make it work. to Be liked or in order to You can find it here a win. They use compromise to their advantage. to Manipulating the negotiation can lead to them giving up far more than what they should. There is no difference between making assumptions and compromising. What are we to do? We prepare a BATNA Now a BATNA is absurd. That’s the Best Alternative Negotiated Agreement, whatever, they come up with a BATNA. BATNA. a Negotiation so they are ready to compromise before they ever start. They get in. a Negotiation and someone says, “Look lets cut!” to the chase, what’s your Bottom line. Well we’ve already prepared a bottom-line. We already have. a BATNA. And what’s the savvy negotiatior say? Once they’ve given up that bottom line? Gee, that’s not quite good enough. The negotiation gets serious now. Because the bottom line number is already there and now they’re asking for more. Then the fear and assumptions step in. Oh my goodness I’m going to You can’t lose this deal. Oh My Gosh. And they start guessing again and assuming oh well I’ll give up 3 more percent and I’ll get this deal. It is something you see all the time. It is something I witness every day as a coach.
Andrew: Actually would you mind then giving us an example from one of the people you’ve coached? I’d like to See it in action. How Someone starts to compromise before the negotiating starts, how they make assumptions and how they back off before they’ve even begun.
Interviewee: Sure, I’ll give you a This is a great story. This is a great story. a True story: A chairman called me to California, to Silicon Valley, for a meeting. It was with Pacific Rim Senior Vice-President and his team. They were trying to to move the technology into Korea and the Senior Vice President and his entire team–now you’re going to love this–believed that, they truly believed, that to Korea, the initial round of technology to be given to You would recognize the name of this Korean corporation. It had eighty million USD in hardware. to be given to Korea to get into the marketplace and the senior vice president actually said: I truly believe they’ll like us if we do that. And there’s an example, that’s an extreme BATNA. I mean we hadn’t even engaged that company yet and here was the senior vice president arguing, convincingly…
Time ends at 10:00
Download immediately Jim Camp – How to Negotiate Like a Pro
Begun 00:10:00 (minute 10)
Here is the argumentation of the senior vice-president to The board of directors to The Chairman to The leadership that the fall back place was to Spend 80 million dollars on equipment for them to penetrate the market place and when the Chairman asked ëHow do you know this?’. We have been to Korea and have been in this region. a We have known this for a long time, and from our past experiences it is the best. to Do business with us, they will love you. That is an extreme but it’s bizarre what people will give away, not even have a meaning.
Andrew: Okay now you have theseÖ let me adjust the microphone here We keep getting here we go. These assumptions can be dangerous. We need to get real information before we enter into negotiations. So we can negotiate intelligently without making up things.
Interviewee: a We have a few things. to Do one of the following to do research, which very often we don’t do. Then, this is going to We have very little! to We do not recommend that you conduct research until we are certain. to Also, you can reject the research. Now, you’re going to Wait! a minute, How do you reject research? This is how we proceed: We take the research we have done and we reject it. Finally, we do our research at the point of the sphere negotiation. We can conduct our own research in the negotiation by asking the right questions and outlining the questions. to Discover the truth about what you believe and what you don’t believe. You will see a Many times, let’s just take the example of websites. Websites are almost always a sales tour and I don’t mind in my website we try to Get the vision of coaching to Get people to be interested in what you are doing. So I encourage, and I encourage people. to Read my book first. Then I encourage people to do the same. to Call me as if we were talking right now. I encourage people to Examine what you are doing right now to eliminate any assumptions and see that they are what they really are.
The greatest strength of a professional negotiator’s is to You don’t know. You have. to ask because if we don’t know. When someone asks a We need to ask questions to Learn to train yourself. I don’t know if I don’t know, I don’t know, so I have got to ask. This is how we get rid of assumptions. a Quick overview
Andrew: I am going to This is how you can help a a little deeper, but let’s make sure that I understand and know how I get there. a good understanding is to Let’s take an example. Let us say I see that your classes are taught and I suggest that the audience learn negotiation skills beyond what they are currently learning. I would love to to get paid for offering gym’s negotiating classes. Why don’t I call them up and work out an agreement where for every class that I sell to My audience is what I get a Cut off what they have on the page. You’re saying the first thing I require to Do is to do my research. This might involve calling other people whose websites you are listed on. It could be. a Take a Look around your website to find out what kind of information you have. a Affiliate fee and so forth. You may also be eligible for do a Very little research to Drop them on and see who is angry with you a past or for underpaying them or excited about you for over paying them and then you’re saying reject that research.
You mean to enter into negotiations. We are looking at selling or reselling your classes via bigcity dot com. How How do your deals structure? What are your thoughts? a Website How would you get us up-and-running? That is what we are referring to here.
Interviewee: Let me start by asking you why you want it. a You want to become an affiliate of me?
Andrew: This is what you are saying. Or you’re asking me?
Interviewee: I would like to Try to Gather your vision and start to try. to Gather mine.
Andrew: to Understand the strategies you are using Jim’s vision and Jim’s is going to You want to understand Andrew Warner’s vision. And that’s why is the decision’s are made in your vision on the emotional side of the brain. Let me know if you have any questions. to Affiliate with me. Then, I can start. to get a Picture and decide for myself. Then I might ask Andrew why you would suggest that I affiliate with you. Now I’m ready to start. to Do my research about your world, your achievements and everything that I just mentioned.
Andrew: How about this, if you were? to Ask what your vision is and why would it be important for you to have it. a Partner up with me
End at 00.15:00 (minute 15).
Andrew: …partner up with me. I might, if I hadn’t already been open in past Mixergy interviews. You might, I suppose. “Well, all I want to do is help people. I don’t care about money. I just want to help.” Or I might, actually maybe I’d do that. Maybe I’d say all I want to Do is to help people. And I’ve misled you because I’ve told you about the view of myself, and of my work, that I want the world to know. And then when you’re negotiating with me, you’re only dealing with this view of me, with this facade that I’m putting up. How Do you want to move on? How What do you get? to The real goal is?
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IntervieweeWe have a Rule known as Three Plus
Andrew: Hmm-hmm.
Interviewee: And I might even say, we also have a Strip Line behavior You might even say: to you, Andrew, I might say, “Andrew, I’m really troubled here. I know a lot of really great people like yourself want to help the world, but why would you want to affiliate with me?” Now that’s the second time I ask that question.
Andrew: Okay. What makes the second time important? You’re saying…
IntervieweeWe are proud to say: to Take out the emotional onion and make it your own. a Having a more complete view. Are you ever asked this question by anyone? a question, just off the cuff, very quickly, and you weren’t able to connect? You weren’t able to get a Picture of how to answer. And that’s how the brain works. So, we have to Do not ask the same question more than three time. The more important the question, or the rule, the more important we are. That’s what we call Three Plus. This is what we discuss in the book. That is the practice of both my books and all our training. But then, I would return and say, “But seriously, Andrew.” You might be surprised to know that I may even reconsider my decision. a A little. You might be able to ask me another question. “Here’s the problem, Andrew. I don’t know really, truly why you would want to affiliate with me. How important is it that your client, your affiliates, all the people you get to touch, how important is it that they find something that really changes their life to the better? How important is that?”
Andrew: “Very important. That’s the reason why I’m here.”
Interviewee: OK, so you’re really serious.
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Andrew: Hmm-hmm. Yes.
Interviewee: Do you really believe that this is something you are serious about?
Andrew: Very serious.
Interviewee: That’s a This is a pertinent question that has three possible answers. Yes, maybe and no. If I hear maybe, I’ll continue. If you have any other suggestions, “Yes”, I’ll say, “Are you sure?” You can say: “No”, “Geez, Andrew, I’m falling short here. Where am I falling short?” So our system enables you to Follow whatever direction you choose to Continue to go knowing that we are here for you. to You can inspire vision in the other person. Because that’s where their decisions will be made. Their decisions to Don’t give up valuable information. So I had. a client one time, and here’s an example. I had a Great client once, CFO of a Company at the moment. He’s in Korea. And we couldn’t figure out why this adversary so much wanted this contract. It was very, very uncomfortable. Bob, his name, was Bob when I said: “Bob, we may have to Twenty Plus this question. Why this contract? Why do you want, why would you want this contract?” We asked the Korean CEO. Bob answered it nine times. The ninth answer was from the Korean CEO. “The contract, I’m just going to break it anyway. So you’ll have to sue me.” He did give up that idea. to Bob. So of course, we wouldn’t, they wouldn’t, sign the contract, because his intention was to It is possible to break it.
Andrew: I see. I see. You know, I’ve had reporters do that to me. They’ll ask me a question. I won’t answer. They’ll ask me a question. I won’t answer. They’ll ask me the same question again, and maybe I’ll come up with a The answer should be formulated in a way that is comfortable to me, but doesn’t reveal what I don’t want to reveal. Yet, after the fifth attempt they ask it, something somehow slips. It’s amazing that it does. And you know, the other thing that I noticed, earlier you said, sometimes when people answer the first time, they’re not giving the right answer. They’re just giving an answer. I’ve noticed that in interviews. I’ll interview somebody, after having done a Pre-interview with them, I know I’m thinking of one person specifically, we talked in the pre-interview. We were all in agreement to Certain facts were never truthful. He’s here. I’ve got them, facts on his website. He is there. I ask him. a Question, and he gets it wrong about his own company!
Interviewee: [Laughs]
Andrew: to Recommendations:-It’s as simple as that. It’s because it’s not a Natural situation to be sitting here facing the light, facing the camera…
Andrew:because It’s not a Natural situation to Lie here, face the camera, and watch the live audience. to Interact, knowing that others going to Watch the video and imagine what happens next. a negotiating situation isn’t a Most people find this a normal situation
Interviewee:no your exactly right, here’s the trick, and i call it the secret sauce, there are rules and fundamentals to negotiation that cannot be broken, and so often they are broken or people don’t know what they don’t know and those rules for example we were talking about 3 plus and that’s a Very powerful psychological rule, because you have to Give the brain a Chance to Get behind the scenes and create division I a journal in workshops and i don’t do many workshops anymore when we did do workshops and i would do an example where i would have everyone close their eyes and bow their heads down and i would ask three questions and as soon as you had a vision: Put your hand up, and invariably I would take people within 3 Questions to The golden gate bridge. I would like to ask the guard of the gate what the orange international on the west coach is. a The golden gate picture is very quick. Some people would get it right away with the first question. But the point here is that you have. to Give the brain time to process the question and if the reporter and I’ve done a Many interviews, just like yours the reporter is going to Push very hard to answer one question. to You can find it here a Reverse is another principle we have and it might not work. to It’s there, but I used it. a Reverse with you, when I first asked you about why would it be so. to Be an affiliate with me and i will say to You can do that. a Great question, i was also wondering the same thing. to be an affiliate with me and that’s a Reverse it so that you have the tool in your tool box but not its a rule it’s a Principle it is not a tactic it’s nt a trick it’s designed to Vision is the key to success to It should be used correctly to You will be able to Moving the negotiation forward
Andrew: Okay, you spoke about the other side’s vision. What about our side? So, should we enter into negotiations with? a Vision of where we want to go to Should we go out? to Being a Try to communicate with us to Find it there.
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